Advancing a runner on an error

[Bryan D Shepherd]

It's a learning process my friend. Even I am learning to this day (see the post that FTM made about giving assists to fielders on a play that results in an error). Like I said, keeping stats is not an exact science. We just try to make them as accurate as possible as outlined in the rules of the game

[CSThunderCoach]

I still think that the E with 2 outs gives a break to a struggling pitcher/team. If after the 2-out error, the pitcher goes on to give up 5 or 6 more runs - runs that would have probably scored anyway (just due to strength of team) that the pitcher somehow gets away without being charged for those runs. 1 error should not protect a pitcher's ERA. M2C.

[djandyo]

Fantastic discussion...wow, and my head hurts as well!

I scored a game recently on Iscore and the coach keeping the book and I had a discussion about earned vs unearned. Iscore gave the pitcher 5 earned runs. Coach keeping the book said it was only 2 earned runs. Very interesting. We need to go back through play by play and see what happened and where he thought the runs were earned or unearned.

Great conversation!!! Thanks for all of the input!

[Rix]

That's what i love about these forums - so much solid information. Thanks for sharing.

[Bryan D Shepherd]

I still think that the E with 2 outs gives a break to a struggling pitcher/team. If after the 2-out error, the pitcher goes on to give up 5 or 6 more runs - runs that would have probably scored anyway (just due to strength of team) that the pitcher somehow gets away without being charged for those runs. 1 error should not protect a pitcher's ERA. M2C.

I don't disagree with you. I don't think that a pitcher should be protected because his defense fouled up, however an error can cause a momentum shift (as I previously stated) and while it's not hard evidence that runners WILL score, momentum sometimes does determine the outcome of the game. Upsets are sometimes caused in games where the momentum shifts to the underdog relatively late in the game..correct?

[plivengood]

I still think that the E with 2 outs gives a break to a struggling pitcher/team. If after the 2-out error, the pitcher goes on to give up 5 or 6 more runs - runs that would have probably scored anyway (just due to strength of team) that the pitcher somehow gets away without being charged for those runs. 1 error should not protect a pitcher's ERA. M2C.

I don't disagree with you, either, Coach - it is one of the limitations of the ERA stat, and one of the reasons why sabermetricians have come up with things like Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP) stats. They provide a truer picture of pitching performance (especially when viewed in addition to more traditional stats like ERA), independent of what fielders are doing. BUT, just because we recognize the limitations of the statistic doesn't mean we can change the way the statistic is calculated by rule. That's why there are so many stat-heads making up new stats!

[TexasRebel]

I haven't read this entire thread, so if it was covered, I'm sorry.

I am having a problem when there is a runner on base, lets say the runner is advanced by the batter, who reaches 1st on an error... The runner then advances another base on the error.

I can either score it as "advanced by batter" or "Error", which counts for both bases...

If, however, I score it as advancing 1 base on the at bat, and then assign an error for the advance to the other base... the fielder is charged with two errors, which is also incorrect.

[OhioTex]

you can score the extra base as "on the throw" and make a note, advanced on the error.