Unassisted DP

[bmclaurin]

Great program, but scoring this play leaves me a little frustrated. I have read the other threads on DP's, so my apologies if this has already been answered, but I didn't see it.

Situation: Little league, R2, 1 out. BR lines out to F6, who steps on 2B to double up R2, who was caught napping off the bag. No matter what keystroke sequence I try, I cannot get the fielding statistics for F6 to calculate correctly. He ought to be credited with 2 PO, 1 DP, and no assists.

I have tried the following three keystroke sequences:

Sequence 1:
Out
Line Drive
Locate
6
Runner at 2nd:
Out
Double Play

This sequence gives the following for F6: 1 PO, 1 DP, 0 A
Result: Putouts are off by 1.

Sequence 2:

Out
Line Drive
Locate
6-6
Runner at 2nd:
Out at 2nd
Double Play

This sequence gives the following for F6: 2 PO, 1 DP, 1 A
Result: Assists are off by 1.

Sequence 3:

Out
Line Drive
Locate
6
Runner at 2nd:
Out at 2nd
Tagged Out
6

This sequence gives the following for F6: 2 PO, 0 DP, 0 A
Result: Double plays are off by 1.

Neither of these three sequences works correctly for the statistics. Surely there must be a way to make this work. I don't care so much about the order of outs on the scoresheet or the play-by-play listing (although that would be nice). Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[FTMSupport]

This issue has been fixed for the next release

[bmclaurin]

Thanks, FTM!

[GatorBoy]

FTM, can you please elaborate on what you have fixed for the next issue? In my opion sequence 3 stats are correct. There should not have been a double play recorded in this senario. Although I wouldn't have used "tagout" I would have said "left base early".

I think a double play should be defined on this forum, because I see it being used in cases in which it shouldn't be used, however unintentional.

I haven't looked at the rule in a long time, but if my memory serves me correctly a double play only occurs with (2) consectutive "forced" outs. The key word being "forced". Once the batter/runner is put out first, then ALL forces are removed and the runners are no longer "forced" to advance - they may retreat to their previous base.

It is used in the context I am suggesting because an inning ending double play (i.e. one out to begin with and a double play has occured) will result in NO runs counting that crossed the plate becasuse they were forced outs. However you can have two recorded outs in an inning (in the same AB), but because the final out was not "forced" any runs that cross the plate ARE counted and recorded.

I have given this senarior before, but again assume runners on 1B and 3B with one out. BR hits a grounder to 1B who steps on 1B and records second out. This removes the force and runner on 1B going to 2B gets into a pickle. Runner on 3B runs home and scores. Just after that runner on 1B is tagged out in the pickle for the third out. There were two consecutive outs made, but they were not two consecutive "forced" outs therefore the run is recorded. Thus it is not a double play.

It's been a while since I have researched this, but perhaps i am off base (no pun intended). It may however make a difference in the future if FTM decides to allow the program to determine which runs are counted and which are not. For now we have to put "held up" on 3B so the run is not recorded but it may not be that way in the future, so this definition would be valid.

[FTMSupport]

The double play and putout calculations have been cleaned up to make sure everyone is credit correctly based on how the play was entered. It is still up to the scorekeeper to decide when a double play has occurred (i.e. using Double Play button), but when used, stats are credited appropriately.

[OhioTex]

Gator boy.

MLB has a caveat in their rule book/definition to allow reverse double plays that do not include two force outs to be an official DP... Below is from MLB rule 2 definitions...


A DOUBLE PLAY is a play by the defense in which two offensive players are put out as a result of continuous action, providing there is no error between putouts.
(a) A force double play is one in which both putouts are force plays.
(b) A reverse force double play is one in which the first out is a force play and the second out is made on a runner for whom the force is removed by reason of the first out. Examples of reverse force plays: runner on first, one out; batter grounds to first baseman, who steps on first base (one out) and throws to second baseman or shortstop for the second out (a tag play). Another example: bases loaded, none out; batter grounds to third baseman, who steps on third base (one out); then throws to catcher for the second out (tag play)

[Bryan D Shepherd]

FTM, can you please elaborate on what you have fixed for the next issue? In my opion sequence 3 stats are correct. There should not have been a double play recorded in this senario. Although I wouldn't have used "tagout" I would have said "left base early".

I think a double play should be defined on this forum, because I see it being used in cases in which it shouldn't be used, however unintentional.

I haven't looked at the rule in a long time, but if my memory serves me correctly a double play only occurs with (2) consectutive "forced" outs. The key word being "forced". Once the batter/runner is put out first, then ALL forces are removed and the runners are no longer "forced" to advance - they may retreat to their previous base.

It is used in the context I am suggesting because an inning ending double play (i.e. one out to begin with and a double play has occured) will result in NO runs counting that crossed the plate becasuse they were forced outs. However you can have two recorded outs in an inning (in the same AB), but because the final out was not "forced" any runs that cross the plate ARE counted and recorded.

I have given this senarior before, but again assume runners on 1B and 3B with one out. BR hits a grounder to 1B who steps on 1B and records second out. This removes the force and runner on 1B going to 2B gets into a pickle. Runner on 3B runs home and scores. Just after that runner on 1B is tagged out in the pickle for the third out. There were two consecutive outs made, but they were not two consecutive "forced" outs therefore the run is recorded. Thus it is not a double play.

It's been a while since I have researched this, but perhaps i am off base (no pun intended). It may however make a difference in the future if FTM decides to allow the program to determine which runs are counted and which are not. For now we have to put "held up" on 3B so the run is not recorded but it may not be that way in the future, so this definition would be valid.

The "Left Base Early" button (as to my interpretation of it when it was released) is primarily a softball button to accommodate the look-back rule. In case you're not sure of what I'm talking about I'll explain it.

The look-back rule is when the pitcher has the ball within the pitching circle, all runners must be on a base or heading to a base. They may not leave base until the ball is released from the pitcher's hand (NCAA, NFHS, ASA, NSA, LL 13-18) or when the ball crosses the batter (LL 9-12). If they do, a dead ball is called and the runner is immediately called out.

This next part is my personal opinion: If the runner is put out because he/she did not tag up on a fly ball, it's actually a force out. You're not required to tag the runner to get them out, right?