Advancing a runner on an error

[Rix]

OK - I get it then. I should "complete" the play at the 1st base with an error, then immediately press on the player and advance him on an E. OK - I thought it all had to be in the same "sequence" but it totally makes sense to just keep moving the player a base at a time as long as it's before the next pitch.

Thanks - that was very helpful.

[Bryan D Shepherd]

I suppose that's one way to do it, but the way I was talking about was that the initial play (the play that comes up when you tap the IN PLAY button) takes him to first. After you complete the initial play, a dialog box will pop up for all current runners (including the batter) that asks you what happened to them. This one you move him to third. After the dialog is completed, then tap him and move him home on the left fielder error.

[Rix]

OK...sorry I didn't explain it. If I did what you say, wouldn't we be missing the E that got the player on 2nd. and only capturing the E that got him to 3rd?

What I think the best solution is (unless I'm wrong) is capturing the batter to 2nd in the first run of the dialog box (with the E that got the batter to 1st, then the E that got them to 2nd). The after the box closes and before the next pitch, just advance the runner on the next E.

So we are in agreement. We advance them in iScore as much as 1 extra base per the error, then manually advance him any remaining bases per error. Not elegant, but works fine.

[CSThunderCoach]

Hey Blue,

I will get to your scenarios in a separate post, but I have to disagree with one of your statements:

if the error kept the defense from getting the 3rd out, then all runs scored after the error will be unearned, because the offense should not have scored them.

This is not entirely true. Just because the inning is extended does not automatically make the runs unearned. Who is to say that any runs that occur after a 2-out error would not have scored the following inning anyway.

If I'm on deck with 2-outs and the batter in front of me gets on due to an error and I hit a home run with my at bat, only 1 run is unearned (the runner in front of me.) My run is still earned as I just as easily could have hit that home run at the beginning of the following inning anyway (in my dreams. ) My home run will be charged to the pitchers ERA.

The only time I have ever scored unearned runs after a 2-out error is in the 9th - and then only if the score was not tied at the time of the error. If the game would have normally continued to the next inning, then runs scored are scored as earned.

Typically (at least the way I score) if the batter earned the base initially and then subsequently scored, the run is earned - even if as a result of the following hitter reaching on an error or the error allows the runner to advance.
The exception to that is, if I hit a single, steal second, advance to 3rd on a sac bunt, and try to score on a sac fly, but the catcher does not hold onto the throw from the outfield (and I would have been out) then an error is charged to the catcher and the run in unearned. If the outfielder drops the fly ball then the error is charged to the fielder and batter does not get credit for the hit, but my run is still earned even though I advanced on the error. (unless there were 2 outs.)

Too much to think about on a Thursday night - pass the Margaritas!! Great conversations though.

[coop85]

I was taught to recreate the inning (not game) without errors to determine how many runs would have scored "naturally" in that inning. Obviously, this leads to cases where a pitcher walks/gives up hits after the 2 out error occurs leading to runs that are "deserved" but technically unearned. This is why I think WHIP is a great companion to ERA (or ERG! )-it takes the fielding component out of it.

[Bryan D Shepherd]

OK...sorry I didn't explain it. If I did what you say, wouldn't we be missing the E that got the player on 2nd. and only capturing the E that got him to 3rd?

What I think the best solution is (unless I'm wrong) is capturing the batter to 2nd in the first run of the dialog box (with the E that got the batter to 1st, then the E that got them to 2nd). The after the box closes and before the next pitch, just advance the runner on the next E.

So we are in agreement. We advance them in iScore as much as 1 extra base per the error, then manually advance him any remaining bases per error. Not elegant, but works fine.

Not quite. The runner advances to second on the same error that got him to first, so it could actually be done one of two ways: Score him to first on an error, then move him to third on a seperate error, or move him to first on the initial error, then move him to second "on the throw", then tap him and move him to third on the error. The way I originally told you just requires less keystrokes.

[Bryan D Shepherd]

Hey Blue,

I will get to your scenarios in a separate post, but I have to disagree with one of your statements:

if the error kept the defense from getting the 3rd out, then all runs scored after the error will be unearned, because the offense should not have scored them.

This is not entirely true. Just because the inning is extended does not automatically make the runs unearned. Who is to say that any runs that occur after a 2-out error would not have scored the following inning anyway.

If I'm on deck with 2-outs and the batter in front of me gets on due to an error and I hit a home run with my at bat, only 1 run is unearned (the runner in front of me.) My run is still earned as I just as easily could have hit that home run at the beginning of the following inning anyway (in my dreams. ) My home run will be charged to the pitchers ERA.

The only time I have ever scored unearned runs after a 2-out error is in the 9th - and then only if the score was not tied at the time of the error. If the game would have normally continued to the next inning, then runs scored are scored as earned.

Typically (at least the way I score) if the batter earned the base initially and then subsequently scored, the run is earned - even if as a result of the following hitter reaching on an error or the error allows the runner to advance.
The exception to that is, if I hit a single, steal second, advance to 3rd on a sac bunt, and try to score on a sac fly, but the catcher does not hold onto the throw from the outfield (and I would have been out) then an error is charged to the catcher and the run in unearned. If the outfielder drops the fly ball then the error is charged to the fielder and batter does not get credit for the hit, but my run is still earned even though I advanced on the error. (unless there were 2 outs.)

Too much to think about on a Thursday night - pass the Margaritas!! Great conversations though.

Actually, CSTC, the rule book states that earned runs can be charged to the pitcher (Rule 9.6.3) "provided that in each case it is before the team in the field has had an opportunity to make a third putout." I read that, and my interpretation of that is that after the error with 2 outs in the inning, all runs scored for the rest of the inning become unearned. I understand why too, things such as momentum changes in the inning can cause a player to play exceptionally well, or exceptionally poor. While not concrete, it does happen, and everyone knows that it happens. One of my football stats colleagues told me that "Keeping statistics is not an exact science. What you score, may not be what the person beside you scores. YOu can have 5 different stats keepers that are watching the same game and all 5 of you have 5 completely different sets of stats."

[OhioTex]

If you want to follow MLB standard... Here is how MLB offically scores it...

Rule 10.16(a) Comment: The following are examples of earned runs charged to a pitcher:
(1) Peter pitches and retires Abel and Baker, the first two batters of an inning. Charlie reaches first base on an error charged to a fielder. Daniel hits a home run. Edward hits a home run. Peter retires Frank to end the inning. Three runs have scored, but no earned runs are charged to Peter, because Charlie should have been the third out of the inning, as reconstructed without the error.

[FTMSupport]

fwiw.. that is how iScore would calculate the Earned Runs in that situation as well.

[CSThunderCoach]

Very well. I stand corrected. This is what happens when you grow up learning to keep score from someone that has never really read the book. Or, read the book and chose to create their own rules.