Advancing a runner on an error

[djandyo]

Runner on first. Ball hit to shortstop, error on throw to 1B. Runner on 1 advances to 2. Play over.

In Iscore, I show grounder hit to SS. ERROR on SS. Then it asks me what happened to runner on 1B. I tell it he moves to 2B.

I have been saying he advanced to 2B "advanced by batter". I believe that is making that a potential Earned Run rather than unearned. Correct?

Should I be saying he advanced to 2B on error and select the SS as the cause of the error again?

Help

[danmcc]

Depends, if the SS never intended to throw the ball to second for a forced out then the runner is advanced by batter or defensive indifference. Why wasn't it a 6-4 play rather than a 6-3 play? 2 outs?

[CSThunderCoach]

The question of the earned run is only relevant (in MOST cases) if the runner standing on 1st prior to the error reached on a hit or not.
The unearned run is really the batter/runner behind him - if he scores.

The runner going from 1st to 2nd is FORCED to advance on the ground ball. He would still be standing on 2nd base with or without the error. If the next batter hits a home run, the result is 2 earned runs, 1 unearned run. Both the runner at 2nd and the batter that hits the home run earned their bases.

I would have scored the play as follows:
In Play
Error
Grounder, Medium
Mark Location - Next
Tap SS (caused the error) - would like to know if it was throwing or fielding - Hint for FTM enhancement.
What happened to runner on 1st? - Advanced by Batter - Runner MUST advance on the ground ball.
What happened to the batter? - Held Up

This sequence appears to make the score-book correct without appearing to show any additional errors.

[Bryan D Shepherd]

Runner on first. Ball hit to shortstop, error on throw to 1B. Runner on 1 advances to 2. Play over.

In Iscore, I show grounder hit to SS. ERROR on SS. Then it asks me what happened to runner on 1B. I tell it he moves to 2B.

I have been saying he advanced to 2B "advanced by batter". I believe that is making that a potential Earned Run rather than unearned. Correct?

Should I be saying he advanced to 2B on error and select the SS as the cause of the error again?

Help

This play also is dependent on the number of outs. If there are two outs in the inning, then both runs should be unearned (because had the error not occurred, the runner going to second would never have had the chance to score), if there are less than two outs, then the runner on second (should he score) will be credited with an earned run.

[Rix]

OK..now I'm confused. I always thought that earned or unearned runs where completely dependent on whether the player got to first on an E or not.

Now my head hurts!

[Rix]

Here's another situation which I don't know how you'd be able to do it in iScore:

1 - Batter hits bunt, Catcher gets up and picks up ball, overthrows 1st base (I know this one's an E on catcher)

2 - Right fielder gets the ball, overthrows 2nd base and runner continues safe at 3rd. I know that it asks you once for where the batter eventually ends up, but is there a way to handle two throwing errors like this on the right fielder - and let's just say for arguments sake, that the left fielder also picks up the ball and miss throws to third and runner makes it home on 3 E's (like we've not seen this in 10 and under girls softball!!!)? So here's a situation where 3 different fielders made errors, each one allowing the batter to make it around.

How does iScore handle this?

[Bryan D Shepherd]

In a sense, it is. However, if the error kept the defense from getting the 3rd out, then all runs scored after the error will be unearned, because the offense should not have scored them.

Here's what you should ask yourself: Would that runner have scored if the error had not occurred? If it's a 2 out error, the answer is always NO. But it's not just about getting to first, say the catcher is charged with an error on a stolen base attempt. That runner should not have scored, because he should've been thrown out at second (remember, that in order for an error to be charged, the runner must have its time on the bases extended because of a defensive mishap). Should that runner score, it will be an unearned run.

So, here are 3 situations I will ask you. I want you to tell me how many earned runs and how many unearned runs for each situation and if there was an error on the play, who should it be charged to:

1. 2 outs, runner on second and third; Batter hits a grounder to shortstop who bobbles the ball and the throw is not in time to get the runner out. Both runners score and the batter ends up at second. Next batter strikes out.

2. 1 out, bases loaded. Batter hits a fly ball to deep center field who bobbles the ball on the catch and drops the ball. Runners at second and third score, runner on first moves to third and the batter ends up at second. Next batter hits a home run for a total of 5 runs in the inning.

3. No outs, bases empty, batter bunts the ball down the third base line. Third baseman charges the ball and throws to first. The throw is not in time to get the batter, and sails over the first baseman's head. The batter does not advance. Next 2 batters walk to load the bases. Next batter hits to third who steps on the bag getting the runner from second to third out (1 out) Throws to first who bobbles the throw and regains control just after the batter touches first. 1 run scores, 1 out, runners on first and second now. Next batter homers to clear the bases. 4 runs score in the inning.

So what are the solutions? How many earned runs? How many unearned runs? If there are one or more errors, who are they on?

I hope these scenarios will help to teach you about unearned and earned runs!

[Bryan D Shepherd]

Here's another situation which I don't know how you'd be able to do it in iScore:

1 - Batter hits bunt, Catcher gets up and picks up ball, overthrows 1st base (I know this one's an E on catcher)

2 - Right fielder gets the ball, overthrows 2nd base and runner continues safe at 3rd. I know that it asks you once for where the batter eventually ends up, but is there a way to handle two throwing errors like this on 3 bases?

For 1, did the throw beat the runner to begin with, and if not, did the batter advance to second?

2. Yes, for the initial play, please see my above question. For the overthrow in this situation, the batter would've advanced to third on the error. So (I'm not sure of the exact sequence, but I'll guide you to how to do it) on the initial in play, score the batter to first, then it'll ask you what happened to the batter, press third and whichever button is the error button and press the right fielder.

[Bryan D Shepherd]

and let's just say for arguments sake, that the left fielder also picks up the ball and miss throws to third and runner makes it home on 3 E's (like we've not seen this in 10 and under girls softball!!!)? So here's a situation where 3 different fielders made errors, each one allowing the batter to make it around.

How does iScore handle this?

For the left fielder throwing error, tap on the runner that's on third and do it all over again, this time clicking on the home tab.

[Rix]

OK...I'll take a crack at it although I'm a noob. Here's how I would have scored it:

1. 2 outs, runner on second and third; Batter hits a grounder to shortstop who bobbles the ball and the throw is not in time to get the runner out. Both runners score and the batter ends up at second. Next batter strikes out.

--- in play - error - spot around SS - SS E - Runner on 3rd home Advanced by Batter - Runner on 2nd home Advanced by Batter. - batter Held Up at 2nd. --- This results in 2 earned runs. Did I do this wrong then?


2. 1 out, bases loaded. Batter hits a fly ball to deep center field who bobbles the ball on the catch and drops the ball. Runners at second and third score, runner on first moves to third and the batter ends up at second. Next batter hits a home run for a total of 5 runs in the inning.

--- E for the batter (you know what I mean), everyone else advanced by batter. Batter on 2nd is the only unearned run.

3. No outs, bases empty, batter bunts the ball down the third base line. Third baseman charges the ball and throws to first. The throw is not in time to get the batter, and sails over the first baseman's head. The batter does not advance. Next 2 batters walk to load the bases. Next batter hits to third who steps on the bag getting the runner from second to third out (1 out) Throws to first who bobbles the throw and regains control just after the batter touches first. 1 run scores, 1 out, runners on first and second now. Next batter homers to clear the bases. 4 runs score in the inning.

--- the first batter in this scenario got a legit hit since the throw wasn't going to be in time anyway and didn't advance a base. The only unearned run would be the one who got on base due to the E on 1st base when he/she bobbled the ball.


Did I just fail miserably?