Scoring a "tipped ball" play

[johnnybench]

Reasonably hard grounder hit to the third baseman's left....he gets a glove on it but can't handle it....would have been a hit...but, the ball caroms to the SS...SS picks it up and would have had the guy at first, but the throw pulls the first baseman off the bag...runner is safe...I scored it as an error on SS but it has come into question...I'd appreciate some help, a no-hitter is on the line. Thanks

[mprusak]

Welcome to the board.

Really tough to say without seeing it. But, sounds like a hit to me if you are saying it wasnt an error on the 3B.

[PetroGuy]

This is similar to a hard hit ball up the middle that goes off the pitcher's glove and another fielder makes the putout. If the deflection goes to another player and that player does not make a play that with ordinary effort, then it would be scored an error.

What is the level of play? This comes into play when determining 'ordinary effort'. Also, I would guess that even with a hard hit ball, the SS would have to hurry the throw to get the runner. If the only way the SS gets the out is to hurry the throw and the throw is off, that is not ordinary effort and no error should be scored unless the runner advances an additional base due to the errant throw. With all this in mind, I would probably go with hit, but it really depends.

[johnnybench]

Thanks for the input...and, sorry, it was a (quality) high school game involving good players. After the ball tipped off the third baseman's glove, I would say the SS had just a little more than a routine play. He had time to set quickly and throw. The throw simply pulled the first baseman slightly off the bag. It would not have been a "bang-bang" play. If the play had been made, it would have elicited a "good play" from a coach for the SS but it's a throw he had time to make and should have made...and, no, my son wasn't pitching .

So...my bottom line (and real question, I guess) is: the fact that the third baseman's act of getting a glove on the ball to prevent it from going through the 5.5 hole does not negate the error made by the SS (assuming the SS's play, taken alone, falls under the definintion of "ordinary effort") does it?

Thanks again for the help...we all agree (coach, myself, others) that the throw should have been made...the question centers only around the third baseman's act.

[mprusak]

I dont believe the deflection alone makes the play un-ordinary as far as effort goes.

[Egghead_#8]

I agree it's an error since the SS would have made the out on a good throw. Instead of a 5-6-3 GO it's an E6.

[PetroGuy]

I agree with the error based on your further description. 5 and 6 should get assists and the error goes to 3.

[mprusak]

I agree with the error based on your further description. 5 and 6 should get assists and the error goes to 3.

Actually, 5 would get an assist, but the error is on 6 not 3.

[johnnybench]

Thank you all...I appreciate the help.

[PetroGuy]

I agree with the error based on your further description. 5 and 6 should get assists and the error goes to 3.

Actually, 5 would get an assist, but the error is on 6 not 3.

D'Oh! I was recalling the play incorrectly. Thanks for catching that for me Mark.