Long term debate...just throwing this out there...

[KevTN]

On our travel team we we an aggressive catcher with a very good arm. Many times her throws to second are there on time catchable and very playable. Our short stop is a bit skittish and will many times pull up and not complete the play resulting in a good throw going to CF and occasionally the runner will advance to another base. The coach wants me to score it an error on the catcher where I put the error on the SS. I have a hard time penalizing a player who makes the right play with a good throw because another player doesn't finish the play. Now if the catchers throw is off I do score it as an error on the catcher.

Thanks

[mprusak]

On a wild throw, I believe its only an error if the runner advances and additional base. I dont think you charge an error to anyone and credit runner with SB if he doesnt advance an additional base.

Now to your point, if its a good throw and runner advances due to misplay by shortstop, I think you are correct in charging E6.

MLB rules below: (may vary from softball). (b) and (f) apply here I think...

(b) When a runner is attempting to steal, and the catcher, after receiving the pitch, makes a wild throw trying to prevent the stolen base, the official scorer shall credit the runner with a stolen base. The official scorer shall not charge an error unless the wild throw permits the stealing runner to advance one or more extra bases, or permits another runner to advance, in which case the official scorer shall credit the runner with the stolen base and charge one error to the catcher.
(c) When a runner, attempting to steal, or after being picked off base, evades being put out in a run-down play and advances to the next base without the aid of an error, the official scorer shall credit the runner with a stolen base. If another runner also advances on the play, the official scorer shall credit both runners with stolen bases. If a runner advances while another runner, attempting to steal, evades being put out in a run-down play and returns safely, without the aid of an error, to the base he originally occupied, the official scorer shall credit a stolen base to the runner who advances.
(d) When a double- or triple-steal is attempted and one runner is thrown out before reaching and holding the base such runner is attempting to steal, no other runner shall be credited with a stolen base.
(e) When a runner is tagged out after oversliding a base, while attempting either to return to that base or to advance to the next base, the official scorer shall not credit such runner with a stolen base.
(f) When in the scorer's judgment a runner attempting to steal is safe because of a muffed throw, the official scorer shall not credit a stolen base. The official scorer shall credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw, charge an error to the fielder who muffed the throw and charge the runner with "caught stealing."

[team mom]

I agree with Mark. Unless it is a wild throw, no error to the catcher. Error to the SS on extra base and possibly on stolen base if the throw was on target and catchable. No debate.

[FTMSupport]

Based on Team Mom's photo, we are guessing the response comes with a little bias. Not disagreeing with the answer, just an observation.

[team mom]

Ha! My DD would never throw an error. Isn't that a benefit of being scorekeeper?

[OhioTex]

LOL Mom...

sounds like an opportunity for center fielder to save te day with an 8-5 ... (grin).

[KevTN]

Thanks...and I was not scoring an error to anyone unless an extra base was achieved...I went back and looked...I spoke wrong I'm sorry. (hanging head in shame)

and Mom....guess who is the catcher on our softball team? LOL I was always try to be unbias as I can it just was getting frustrating that the coach was wanting me to score the error on the catcher on good throws...Now that mprusak gave me the ruling (Thanks!!!!) I can show the proper way of scoring.

[Camerabry]

So is the Short Stop the coaches kid?

[OhioTex]

good question Camerabry... (grin)


another point to consider is the difference between a technically correct "error" and a general "misplay" or "missed opportunity". on this board we usually talk about technically correct scoring to established rules.. (for consistency across games, teams and leagues).... in the case of errors, we know that does not capture all the player miscues that happen (some by definition are captured as wild pitches or passed balls, or balks and some are glossed over like not getting a lead runner or blowing what should have been a double play or fly ball that falls in because fielder set up in wrong place ) ..we counsel folks to use 'notes" liberally for these type of situations.. I have often found some coaches to be more interested in the broader idea of "missed opportunities" rather than technically correct "errors".

may be worth a discussion with coach and scorer as to "expectations of the scorer role for this team/level".. not just on this play but in general, ... Understand this may be easier said than done, sounds nice but some coaches just not interested. Coach may not have ever thought about the difference pro/con to being technically correct in scoring (to established baseball standards) vs recording what ever details he wants to support his coaching / player development needs. As scorers know, they are not one and the same. what role do you both expect..? ..as an example. right or wrong the well established rules for scoring is not to document all passed balls and wild pitches, just those that result in a base runner advancing, similar not all misplays are errors. some teams have seperate trackers for pitchers, catchers and hitters to record their unique needs for coaching/development beyond the scorebook . also while in that conversation, nice opportunity to ensure shared understanding .. that Scoring is not Same as umpiring, a technically correct Scorer has to follow umpires calls (right or wrong). most realize this, but it is worth surfacing for validation and as a way to reinforce the role of scoring is unique, not to be the ump, and not to be the coach.. but instead its own unique role. a standardize record of the game over time. in practice, I hear, the one thing in common with 'professional oficial scorers' if they do their job right likely upset some one in both dugouts. (revised/updated)..

[KevTN]

Well I was going to avoid this because I don't want the thread to turn into a finger pointing. I was just concerned because when I send the games to the coach he would point out the catcher had X throwing errors and wants me to score it that way when the SS would not complete the play for whatever reason. I just think it is wrong to charge an error to the catcher (whether my daughter or the back up catcher) in this situation. I have no problem charging an error to my daughter when she makes them. It gives us a chance to review the game and hopefully learn and grow. At the end of each game or if it is a tournament she will grab my tablet and look at her batting and fielding stats. The only way she will gain that understanding is by recording things truthfully. Trust me she doesn't always like it either (along with her mother but that is another story...lol )

I hope this makes sense